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Post by brosin on Jun 13, 2011 17:21:37 GMT -5
  Carry on, I'll just keep talking to myself. Of course Gross' timing is always interesting... but nonetheless Me: Sad thing about the [$14.7T] number ( www.usdebtclock.org/ )... is that it doesn't even come close to counting future liabilities correctly - shocking I know, but the govt is using creative accounting methods to understate our true debt. That being said, I just found the most recent total for the US' Fiscal Gap (a much more realistic number when you include all future liabilities of Medicare/Medicaid and SS)... and it STUNNED me (and that coming from someone who knew it was going to be a ridiculous number to start with)... www.economist.com/economics/by-invitation/guest-contributions/america_bankruptTHE US has a fiscal gap—the present value of all its future spending (including servicing its official debt) less all its future taxes of $202 trillion—almost 14 times GDP. Of course we all know that not only is it mathematically impossible for the US to get out of debt... if the U.S. tried to pay off even the most microscopic of percentages, the world economy would be shaken to the core as the monetary base would shrink rapidly (not to mention the deleveraging it would cause)Gross: US Is in Even Worse Shape Financially Than Greece: GrossBy: Jeff Cox CNBC.com Staff Writer When adding in all of the money owed to cover future liabilities in entitlement programs the US is actually in worse financial shape than Greece and other debt-laden European countries, Pimco's Bill Gross told CNBC Monday. Much of the public focus is on the nation's public debt, which is $14.3 trillion. But that doesn't include money guaranteed for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, which comes to close to $50 trillion, according to government figures.
The government also is on the hook for other debts such as the programs related to the bailout of the financial system following the crisis of 2008 and 2009, government figures show.
Taken together, Gross puts the total at "nearly $100 trillion," that while perhaps a bit on the high side, places the country in a highly unenviable fiscal position that he said won't find a solution overnight."To think that we can reduce that within the space of a year or two is not a realistic assumption," Gross said in a live interview. "That's much more than Greece, that's much more than almost any other developed country. We've got a problem and we have to get after it quickly." Gross spoke following a report that US banks were likely to scale back on their use of Treasurys as collateral against derivatives and other transactions. Bank heads say that move is likely to happen in August as Congress dithers over whether to raise the nation's debt ceiling, according to a report in the Financial Times. The move reflects increasing concern from the financial community over whether the US is capable of a political solution to its burgeoning debt and deficit problems. "We've always wondered who will buy Treasurys" after the Federal Reserve purchases the last of its $600 billion to end the second leg of its quantitative easing program later this month, Gross said. "It's certainly not Pimco and it's probably not the bond funds of the world." Pimco, based in Newport Beach, Calif., manages more than $1.2 trillion in assets and runs the largest bond fund in the world. Gross confirmed a report Friday that Pimco has marginally increased its Treasurys allotment—from 4 percent to 5 percent—but still has little interest in US debt and its low yields that are in place despite an ugly national balance sheet. "Why wouldn't an investor buy Canada with a better balance sheet or Australia with a better balance sheet with interest rates at 1 or 2 or 3 percent higher?" he said. "It simply doesn't make any sense." Should the debt problem in Greece explode into a full-blown crisis—an International Monetary Fund bailout has prevented a full-scale meltdown so far—Gross predicted that German debt, not that of the US, would be the safe-haven of choice for global investors.
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Post by timber on Jun 13, 2011 17:38:07 GMT -5
i think we should cut our military spending in half that should cover it
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Post by timber on Jun 13, 2011 17:45:56 GMT -5
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Post by sloop on Jun 13, 2011 17:49:12 GMT -5
ho hum........Bros. Your a broken record lately. You must be the life of the party.  |
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Post by sloop on Jun 13, 2011 17:51:00 GMT -5
Bros, Look!!!! IF something happens to the economy who's gonna buy FORD'S!!! .... now STOP IT!!!! Shhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
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Post by brosin on Jun 13, 2011 17:51:04 GMT -5
i think we should cut our military spending in half that should cover it Not that I disagree outright, but there's no way that's happening. Banks lend all that money that gets spent on defense, and defense accounts for a large percentage of jobs in our country. We're pretty much damned if we do, damned if we don't. Debt forgiveness (default) one day is the only way out. |
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Post by cosmic on Jun 13, 2011 17:54:08 GMT -5
It will truly suck if there is debt forgiveness at the state and country level, but not at the individual level.
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Post by sloop on Jun 13, 2011 17:57:22 GMT -5
It will truly suck if there is debt forgiveness at the state and country level, but not at the individual level. I bet thats what it comes down to at some point |
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Post by Clinton SPX on Jun 13, 2011 17:57:43 GMT -5
Well I wll choose dont.
Money spent overseas creates jobs overseas.
fuck that shit
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Post by Clinton SPX on Jun 13, 2011 18:01:09 GMT -5
And sloop crazy talk causes people to leave fastopia.
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Post by sloop on Jun 13, 2011 18:06:44 GMT -5
And sloop crazy talk causes people to leave fastopia. Ok...thats true.. no fun anymore. ill take it down |
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Post by jack on Jun 13, 2011 18:15:54 GMT -5
And sloop crazy talk causes people to leave fastopia. "Even "crazy talk" (and I'm not suggesting that Sloop's IS) is protected in the Fastopian First Amendment's freedom of speech last I heard...if people don't like it they can: - Suck an egg - Tune out - Agree - Disregard - Disagree, - etc.... People leave for reasons only known to themselves - that's life. |
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Post by brosin on Jun 13, 2011 18:27:32 GMT -5
LOL i love that the first choice is
-suck an egg
;D here here jack
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Post by brosin on Jun 13, 2011 18:30:29 GMT -5
It will truly suck if there is debt forgiveness at the state and country level, but not at the individual level. Hey I figured it out. That's what we're all investing in... Sloop's Bagholder.com IPO is..................................................... The Bernank: Quantitative Easer |
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Post by cosmic on Jun 13, 2011 18:30:33 GMT -5
People leave for reasons only known to themselves - that's life. Sometimes I'm thinkin' we'd know more reasons if we read more local newspapers.... [just sayin'  ] |
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Post by sloop on Jun 13, 2011 18:33:01 GMT -5
Thanks Jack, but for some reason people cant take joking and BSing anymore. I dont want to be the reason for losing people. I hate stocktwits, its so dry....but whatever!
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Post by Clinton SPX on Jun 13, 2011 18:33:19 GMT -5
And sloop crazy talk causes people to leave fastopia. "Even "crazy talk" (and I'm not suggesting that Sloop's IS) is protected in the Fastopian First Amendment's freedom of speech last I heard...if people don't like it they can: - Suck an egg - Tune out - Agree - Disregard - Disagree, - etc.... People leave for reasons only known to themselves - that's life. Can you show me this first amendment that allows anything other than stock talk in the mercantile exchange. |
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Post by jack on Jun 13, 2011 18:37:36 GMT -5
People leave for reasons only known to themselves - that's life. Sometimes I'm thinkin' we'd know more reasons if we read more local newspapers.... [just sayin' ] People come and people go throughout one's life...one tries to appreciate it when they are in it....and other times one rejoices when not (for example w/ the Ex!) lol!!!  |
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Post by jack on Jun 13, 2011 18:39:58 GMT -5
"Even "crazy talk" (and I'm not suggesting that Sloop's IS) is protected in the Fastopian First Amendment's freedom of speech last I heard...if people don't like it they can: - Suck an egg - Tune out - Agree - Disregard - Disagree, - etc.... People leave for reasons only known to themselves - that's life. Can you show me this first amendment that allows anything other than stock talk in the mercantile exchange. You are correct Clint - First Amendment only applies to the Saloon...nice knowing ya Sloop!!! lol!!! j/k |
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Post by ppppp3571113 on Jun 13, 2011 20:03:51 GMT -5
Carry on, I'll just keep talking to myself. ... Nothing to add, cant possibly disagree, wanted to let you know you are NOT talking to yourself. Carry on! |
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Post by tendermyshares on Jun 13, 2011 20:19:38 GMT -5
Is the road to opex prize really a 1/10 oz gold coin or 1 oz silver coin, or is it just a picture of a coin?
(Oklahoma reference.)
Jud: I'm tired of all these pitures of wimmin, I want real wimmin!"
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Post by jack on Jun 13, 2011 20:39:01 GMT -5
Is the road to opex prize really a 1/10 oz gold coin or 1 oz silver coin, or is it just a picture of a coin? (Oklahoma reference.) Jud: I'm tired of all these pitures of wimmin, I want real wimmin!" The coin is graciously supplied by the incomparable and very generous Fastopia's very own gold and precious metals broker Ask2lern - yes they are real!!! And very cool to win one! Good luck |
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Post by tendermyshares on Jun 13, 2011 21:13:24 GMT -5
Wow, cool beans!
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Carry on, I'll just keep talking to myself. Of course Gross' timing is always interesting... but nonetheless
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