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Post by jack on Apr 10, 2012 15:13:49 GMT -5
Alcoa beat, gold went down, let me know when we know why anything happens anymore lol. Me too man me too.
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Post by Clinton SPX on Apr 10, 2012 19:27:24 GMT -5
GLD looks bullish at least until top of trend res minimum Attachments:
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 10, 2012 19:50:52 GMT -5
Wow I was just reading that gold was 18-23 dollars an ounce until 1975. I guess that's only 100 bagger, but if you just kept putting all your money in there and didn't make any other investments .....
I can't get a chart going back that far, can anybody else?
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 10, 2012 19:55:51 GMT -5
I think that's be around 10 points on gold futures. It's down 3.50 points now so maybe it's already reached its maximum. Today was a program buying fluke. Gold sales in India, AFTER the end of the jewelers strike, were down 80% from last year the past 2 days. There is little demand for physical gold at these prices. It's nothing but another tremendous bubble waiting to burst. The next tulip bulb. GLD looks bullish at least until top of trend res minimum
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Post by maxi on Apr 10, 2012 20:21:50 GMT -5
GOLD futures chart daily
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Post by natsalilfly on Apr 10, 2012 20:33:50 GMT -5
Wow I was just reading that gold was 18-23 dollars an ounce until 1975. I guess that's only 100 bagger, but if you just kept putting all your money in there and didn't make any other investments ..... I can't get a chart going back that far, can anybody else? www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/yearly_graphs.plx1975-2012 is as far back a chart as Kitco provides. You can see the red line dip under $50, but this doesn't quite go back to $23 per oz.
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Post by natsalilfly on Apr 10, 2012 20:34:55 GMT -5
oh, you'll have to hit "go back" and then click on 1975-2012, near the bottom of the page
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Post by Clinton SPX on Apr 10, 2012 20:57:02 GMT -5
GOLD futures chart daily That looks like a big ol bull flag to me :shrug: So did you hear the bernak is going to cut back on the supply of money and raise interest rates? Ya, me neither
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Post by maxi on Apr 10, 2012 21:14:34 GMT -5
Yep it looks like that to me too.... Still room for it to move around for a while tho....
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 10, 2012 21:37:59 GMT -5
Thanks Nat. There's a setting in the middle of the page to get monthly averages for earlier years. It looks like that article I quoted was a bit exaggerated. It traded betwen 35-40 annual average from 1968 to 71, bu then started to move quite a bit. But I'm sure everything's different now and gold will just keep going up and up. Interesting, from the 80s to the 90s gold price was almost cut in half. Worth a look, you can see historical charts and data going back over 100 years. Wow I was just reading that gold was 18-23 dollars an ounce until 1975. I guess that's only 100 bagger, but if you just kept putting all your money in there and didn't make any other investments ..... I can't get a chart going back that far, can anybody else? www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/yearly_graphs.plx1975-2012 is as far back a chart as Kitco provides. You can see the red line dip under $50, but this doesn't quite go back to $23 per oz.
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Post by natsalilfly on Apr 10, 2012 21:48:33 GMT -5
Yeah 18-23 did sound pretty low even for back them old days! It pays to check it further, glad you found how to work the Kitco charts tricks.
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 10, 2012 22:57:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that article was on Kitco too, but maybe I'm wrong, I have 3 gold sites bookmarked. Maybe ther number was in Euros. Oh, wait. Gnite Fastopia. Yeah 18-23 did sound pretty low even for back them old days! It pays to check it further, glad you found how to work the Kitco charts tricks.
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 10, 2012 23:05:26 GMT -5
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Post by novice08 on Apr 10, 2012 23:11:43 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see it in inflation-adjusted dollars.
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Post by Clinton SPX on Apr 11, 2012 7:22:46 GMT -5
Chinese Gold Imports From Hong Kong Rise Nearly 13 Fold – PBOC Likely Buying Dip Again Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/11/2012 - 07:58
Chinese gold demand remains very strong as seen in the importation of 40 metric tonnes or nearly 40,000 kilos of gold bullion from Hong Kong alone in February. Hong Kong’s gold exports to China in February were nearly 13 times higher than the 3,115 kilograms in the same month last year, the data shows. Shipments were 72,617 kilograms in the first two months, compared with 10,564 kilograms a year ago or nearly a seven fold increase from the record levels seen last year. China’s appetite for gold remains strong and Chinese demand alone is likely to put a floor under the gold market.
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Post by Clinton SPX on Apr 11, 2012 7:38:36 GMT -5
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Post by ask2lern on Apr 11, 2012 8:59:31 GMT -5
Wow I was just reading that gold was 18-23 dollars an ounce until 1975. I guess that's only 100 bagger, but if you just kept putting all your money in there and didn't make any other investments ..... I can't get a chart going back that far, can anybody else? Here is a little history on Gold price: In 1933 when Roosevelt enacted executive order 6102 requiring all citizens to turn there gold in for paper notes the value of gold was fixed at $20.67. In January of 1934 Congress passed the Gold Reserve Act which authorized all gold to be owned by the government as a precious metals base for its currency. At this time Roosevelt raised the base price from (approximately) $20.67 per ounce to $35.00 per ounce, where it stayed until 1971 when Nixon closed the Gold window no longer allowing foreign governments to redeem the debt they held in gold. (It was illegal for American Citizens to own gold from 1933-1972 but Nixon's actions made it legal) In February of 1973 Nixon saw an opportunity to liquidate more governmental debt by taking the dollar off the gold standard. Naturally he seized the opportunity, and in December 1971, he increased the official price of gold from $35.00 per ounce to $38.00 per ounce. This same phenomenon occurred again on February 12, 1973, when the U.S. dollar was devalued again for a third time with the official price of gold being increased to $42.22 per ounce. From that point on the US stopped pricing gold and left it to the markets to determine price. To this day the US governments official price of gold is 42.22 per ounce and all gold reserves held by the US are valued at that price despite the fact it is trading at much higher prices. There is some significance to the official price as it was determined in a supreme court case TWA v. Franklin Mint Corp. - 466 U.S. 243 (1984) in which TWA lost a large gold shipment. Franklin mint wanted to recover full market value of approximately $250,000 but the court determined that TWA was only liable for the $6,475.98. This was determined by the governments official gold price of 42.22 despite the fact that gold was trading much higher. Here is a link on the case; supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/466/243/....................................
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Post by jack on Apr 11, 2012 9:04:28 GMT -5
This string would be remiss if it didn't include the following:
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 11, 2012 9:22:21 GMT -5
Zerohedge/Tyler Durden is a gold pumper and an equity basher. How's that working for him so far? Here's a balanced article from an expert. Gold could peak in 2013 after 12-year bull run: GFMS Reuters – 1 hour 53 minutes ago.. . By Jan Harvey LONDON (Reuters) - A record high gold price above $2,000 an ounce next year could mark the peak of the precious metal's more-than-decade-long bull run as monetary policy in key economies starts to normalize, the chairman of metals consultancy GFMS said on Wednesday. The market is expected to rise to new highs by early 2013 after struggling this year against a backdrop of softer demand in key physical markets and slackening investment appetite for bullion, GFMS chairman Philip Klapwijk told Reuters. Gold prices are likely to be driven above $2,000 as concerns over the euro zone debt crisis persist and the prospect of more U.S. monetary easing gains ground, he said. But that move could be short lived as those factors dissipate, particularly if the prospect of higher U.S. interest rates becomes a reality the following year, he said "We are expecting still that we are going to see a push above $2,000 in 2013, but it may be that 2013 marks the high water mark for the market," Klapwijk said. "It depends (on whether) we see some resolution in Europe, enough to really take some of the sting out of that issue... an end to stimulus measures in the United States... and the prospect of a normalization of monetary policy." Klapwijk said gold was expected to trade in a range of $1,530-1,920 an ounce in 2012, with an average price of $1,731 an ounce. The upper end of that price view is just below last year's record $1,920.30 an ounce, reached in September. "What we're seeing... is a postponement of the next leg higher in prices," Klapwijk said before the launch of GFMS' Gold 2012 report. "The $2,000 an ounce level being surpassed is probably looking more like a story for the first half of 2013 than something we will see in the second half of this year." "Lying behind this is what we have seen over the first three months of this year, which is a certain amount of investor fatigue, (and) certain physical markets such as India and China not punching quite as hard as they did last year," he added. Looking at projections for supply and demand this year, he pointed to a fundamental surplus in the market which in dollar terms could be north of $130 billion. "That surplus needs to be purchased by central banks or, more likely, private sector investors. This is quite a big ask now." SUPPLY, DEMAND GAP WIDENS Some key areas of demand, such as central bank buying, will remain in place, but the company said it does not expect official sector purchases, which last year rose to their highest since the mid 1960s, to increase much this year in ounce terms. A softer picture has emerged of jewelry buying, the largest single element of gold demand. Gold jewelry fabrication fell 2 percent in 2011 to 1,973 metric tonnes (2,175 tons), GFMS data showed, as off take from major consumer India fell nearly 3 percent to 761 tonnes. Physical bar investment has since softened a touch after leaping by some 37 percent to a record 1,209 tonnes in 2011. "There isn't the same panic move into physical bars that we saw at times last year," Klapwijk said. "That isn't to say demand for physical bars and coins isn't at what are still pretty high levels historically, but we are seeing less strength than in the fourth quarter." "Generally investors are almost looking for the next big reason to make a more powerful move into gold." The gap between the amount of gold mined and recycled, and the quantity used to fabricate jewelry and other goods, is expected to widen this year, Klapwijk said. "That number has gone up substantially over recent years, in terms of the call on the market and the amount that needs to be committed to the market to clear this surplus," he said. "This is going to at some point become unsustainable. Unless you believe there is going to be a massive sea change in terms of those investors that are involved in this market and a massive broadening of participation, there will come a point where the usual suspects won't be enough to buy all this gold, and the price is going to fall." Gold's correlation with other assets such as stocks, the dollar and the euro is still in a state of flux. In the first three quarters of 2011 gold traded largely in line with the dollar as investors bought both assets as a haven from risk. But in the last six months it has traded against the dollar and in line with other commodities. While it is currently less vulnerable to fluctuations in the equity markets, Klapwijk said, prices could still drop sharply if a sudden move lower in stocks is seen. "I personally think investors, looking at the more speculative end of the spectrum, are probably not as leveraged as they were at the end of the third quarter, and therefore the vulnerability of gold to sell off when the market is in risk-off mode is not as great as it was at times last year," he said. "But if we're looking at a $1,530 low for gold, that does build in an expectation that there is going to be a risk-off moment and that gold will probably be sucked under for a while." GFMS is a Thomson Reuters company. (Reporting by Jan Harvey; editing by Jason Neely) Chinese Gold Imports From Hong Kong Rise Nearly 13 Fold – PBOC Likely Buying Dip Again Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/11/2012 - 07:58 Chinese gold demand remains very strong as seen in the importation of 40 metric tonnes or nearly 40,000 kilos of gold bullion from Hong Kong alone in February. Hong Kong’s gold exports to China in February were nearly 13 times higher than the 3,115 kilograms in the same month last year, the data shows. Shipments were 72,617 kilograms in the first two months, compared with 10,564 kilograms a year ago or nearly a seven fold increase from the record levels seen last year. China’s appetite for gold remains strong and Chinese demand alone is likely to put a floor under the gold market.
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Post by novice08 on Apr 11, 2012 9:30:24 GMT -5
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 11, 2012 9:39:10 GMT -5
Good article on current state of gas prices/oil. www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-04-11/why-gasoline-isnt-4-per-gallon-nationallyThis glut of supplies could be impacting the behavior of oil speculators, who have been pouring billions of dollars into a variety of oil-related futures contracts since October, betting on an Iranian supply disruption and, as a result, helping lift oil prices 30 percent in the last six months. The amount of speculative money in the oil market hit a record high in mid-March, when money managers held a net long exposure to oil through 642,724 futures contracts. At 1,000 barrels per contract, that’s roughly the equivalent of 643 million barrels of oil—more than the entire world uses in a week. But speculators pulled back last week, reducing their net long positions to 576,526 futures contracts. That’s still the seventh-highest weekly total ever, according to Citigroup (C) oil analyst Tim Evans.
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Post by ask2lern on Apr 11, 2012 10:52:03 GMT -5
Just as many think there is a "Bernanke PUT" in equities IMO there is a "Global Central Bank Put" on Gold........remember they are quietly buying and seems after every dip price rises and then we find a report that China, India etc. bought it...................They are net buyers and as I have mentioned many times if central banks want it so do I.............
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 11, 2012 11:49:12 GMT -5
It's kind of crazy to just buy gold and stick it in a hole in the ground, maybe. It really has no inherent value. People think that if armageddon or something occurred they would be glad to have physical gold. Wouldn't they be surprised when in a circumstance where people need food, they have no interest in gold, being utterly useless. We're like a bunch of monkeys putting an insane value on an ounce of something that is pretty and shiny. What idiots we are.
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 11, 2012 11:52:00 GMT -5
Kitco has this interesting feature where they post what they say is the change in inherent value of gold versus how much the price has changed purely due to dollar weakness or strength. It's pretty useful and appears to update in real time. Here's an example I shot just now: Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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Post by huh? on Apr 11, 2012 11:54:11 GMT -5
Kitco has this interesting feature where they post what they say is the change in inherent value of gold versus how much the price has changed purely due to dollar weakness or strength. It's pretty useful. Here's an example I shot just now: Uploaded with ImageShack.usNice post and info. Exalt. Do you have a link for that page?
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Post by Clinton SPX on Apr 11, 2012 11:59:45 GMT -5
It's kind of crazy to just buy gold and stick it in a hole in the ground, maybe. It really has no inherent value. People think that if armageddon or something occurred they would be glad to have physical gold. Wouldn't they be surprised when in a circumstance where people need food, they have no interest in gold, being utterly useless. We're like a bunch of monkeys putting an insane value on an ounce of something that is pretty and shiny. What idiots we are. Your making the assumption that EVERYONE in the whole freaking world will have no need of gold at the very same time in history. I'll take the other side of that bet.
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 11, 2012 12:02:51 GMT -5
Go to Kitco.com and there's a box toward the top that says "Did gold really go down (up)?" Click on that box to get to that page. It's not an ad, though it kind of looks like one because it's a banner. It can take the new page a minute to load and sometimes it fails, just go back and try again. I'm saying gold is overbought on RSI and Stochastics here on the 4 hour. RSI is not technically above overbought level but if you look at historical chart it almost always pulls back hard from this RSI level. MACD is also diverging negatively from price, which is bearish. The new 4 hour candle just started at 1 p.m. but is not included in this screenshot: Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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Post by tendermyshares on Apr 11, 2012 12:06:34 GMT -5
Gold's not even rare except for banks buying it. They haven't had such fantastic judgment last I checked. Thing is, no one, anywhere, right now has any "need" of gold. We're just told it's valuable by everyone else. If someone showed you a one ounce gold piece and told you it cost $1500, and you had never heard of or seen gold before, wouldn't you laugh in their face? It's kind of crazy to just buy gold and stick it in a hole in the ground, maybe. It really has no inherent value. People think that if armageddon or something occurred they would be glad to have physical gold. Wouldn't they be surprised when in a circumstance where people need food, they have no interest in gold, being utterly useless. We're like a bunch of monkeys putting an insane value on an ounce of something that is pretty and shiny. What idiots we are. Your making the assumption that EVERYONE in the whole freaking world will have no need of gold at the very same time in history. I'll take the other side of that bet.
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Post by Clinton SPX on Apr 11, 2012 12:10:25 GMT -5
Gold's not even rare except for banks buying it. They haven't had such fantastic judgment last I checked. Thing is, no one, anywhere, right now has any "need" of gold. We're just told it's valuable by everyone else. If someone showed you a one ounce gold piece and told you it cost $1500, and you had never heard of or seen gold before, wouldn't you laugh in their face? Your making the assumption that EVERYONE in the whole freaking world will have no need of gold at the very same time in history. I'll take the other side of that bet. wrong again my friend, gold is the most special of all metals for conducting electricity. No other metal has as many free floating electrons. BTW Silver has the second most free floating electrons.
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Post by ask2lern on Apr 11, 2012 12:20:06 GMT -5
It's kind of crazy to just buy gold and stick it in a hole in the ground, maybe. It really has no inherent value. People think that if armageddon or something occurred they would be glad to have physical gold. Wouldn't they be surprised when in a circumstance where people need food, they have no interest in gold, being utterly useless. We're like a bunch of monkeys putting an insane value on an ounce of something that is pretty and shiny. What idiots we are. I respectfully disagree with this point of view...............gold is the worlds oldest form of money and would be used a medium of exchange for goods and services in an apocalyptic enviorment IMO..........I do not think that we will use our gold to exchange for goods and services but rather preserve our purchasing power..............the old saying that in 1933 an ounce of gold would dress a man from head to to in the finest garments......it will do the same today as it would have at near any point since.........if it were just a worthless shiny rock it would not be held by central banks as a key asset IMO..................My gold holdings are greater then my equity holdings and my hope is that I never have to use them so they can be passed to my children and grandchildren as much of them were passed to me by my parents and grandparents...............my grandfather remembered the bank holiday in 1933 and passed along his beliefs so I guess you could say its in my blood.................GLTA
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